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`0:55:16`

Rather than delight in it, you deal with it. Right. So more than I would like. Yeah, so this is this is where I'm taking email away from the things that are pleasant. Like the you know, getting an email from a friend, hearing from a family member, whatever. Like that's you can envision that…

`0:56:02`

says, "All stories are about the 5-second moment of change." And what he's saying is that there's something that happens at the beginning and then at the end it will be the opposite of what's going on. So take your classic rom-com, right? You have somebody who's in state A and…

`0:56:48`

about the positive aspects of of email, it's like really special positive thing. They're enchanted words. Yes. So I I I you know, I didn't like go through thesaurus to find these. They just came out. But but but they come out in a way where um they are the right words for that…

`0:57:35`

rhetoric that you're playing around paragraph. I'm not surprised at all. It felt really good. It felt really good. It came together. I love when I've got a couple C's going and then like I got to find some more. And the ones I find aren't contrived. Another C. Yeah. They aren…

`0:58:22`

um and and wonder following from the previous you know, it's just like it's it's making it's it's cashing in on what I said earlier. And now it's filling that word wonder with these So good news, the magic's still there. It's just obscured, buried under a mess of…

`0:59:07`

that. Um and people aren't going to remember that, but I do believe it stays with them in a way where subconsciously there's a closing of the loop there. Some from people, some from machines, a lot from email software. That if if you look at comedy writers, a lot of the way that jokes…

`0:59:54`

with email software. Now I still don't actually get deep into that we're going to make email software necessarily, but it's a hint as to what we're about to do with this hey.com Yeah. And with hey we've done just that. It's a redo, a rethink, a simplified, potent reintroduction…

`1:00:41`

I I did add that. Um But yeah, that's that's it. I I barely The whole point of this even though I want to close the loops and I knew we had like months to go until we we released the thing. Um I wanted first to establish that we had this domain hey.com…

`1:01:27`

doing this was how much you like playing around with the rhythm of words, right? So you said a redo, a rethink, prayers and payers. All the the these sort of playing around with words of sort of this repetition. The jabs. Right. It's like a boxing match. Just jabs. But they're friendly. I like…

`1:02:13`

say in it is that you would work with students to take a piece that's say five pages and then they distill down to one page and then one paragraph, one sentence, and then maybe even one phrase. Why would you focus on that idea for for the class? To me distilling and editing Actually, you…

`1:03:00`

and then you're going to lose some. So I kind of this I like this idea of five paragraphs whatever might be two paragraphs too long. So we need to the three paragraph version or whatever or what pick a number. It doesn't matter. It could be five to four to three to two, whatever…

`1:03:46`

It was always just write, write, write. And then like do a second draft, do a third draft, whatever. And whatever it was like the formal process. It was never about make this tighter, briefer, shorter, more concise, more Um more pointed. It was never about that and I always wondered why not? Like isn't that…

`1:04:32`

if I was to teach just any class at all it would be about iteration. It'd be take something, a project. Pick a project. I don't care. It could be about rocks. It could be about trees. It could be about furniture. Turn it in. The whole semester is just making it Versus in school…

`1:05:18`

itself's been 20 years. The company's been 25 years. Yeah. But yeah, 20 years of Basecamp. Multiple versions along the way. Um and we've made other products since, but yeah, Basecamp has been iterated on and iterated and It's a true joy and pleasure to really hone something like that. To really get…

`1:06:04`

uh and and not just like put it aside move on to the next thing. The other thing that I like about it, so there's two things actually. The first thing is it forces you to understand the essence of what you're trying to say. then the other thing is when you do that, I…

`1:06:50`

here which is that often the distillation is like an emergent property. It it's it's not just taking the parts and making them smaller. You could have the distillation words not even be in the piece. Yes. That's often times what a what a headline is. And this is actually one of the most…

`1:07:36`

you you are sort of squeezing something out and and in some ways what's what what remains and what comes out are different things. And the drop that comes out could summarize the whole thing and maybe that's the one liner or the one word. You know, yeah. And it could be a different word…

`1:08:22`

not a programmer that's a problem. But the first thing we look at is not the resume. It's how have they responded to our call for applications. And we say like write a cover letter. And if the cover letter is written in a way where it's a generic cover letter they're gone…

`1:09:07`

like that's a problem. And if it's like very generic and buzzwordy, that's a problem. It's really the best filter we to get to the kind of person that we want to hire. Uh not every company is going to want to hire like we hire, but we know that the majority of…

`1:09:54`

gets gets an app. Yeah. Is there a lot of long form writing that you're doing or is most of the writing multi paragraph sort of in Basecamp and Um there's like I mean long form for us is the I don't know 800 words 1200 words something like that like a pitch an…