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`2:43:48`

He gave us the economic confidence, but then he also gave us the confidence of a CEO running perhaps at the time the most important internet business in the US. Showing up to our calls, which we would have with him like once a year and basically just going like, yeah, you guys are doing awesome stuff…

`2:44:49`

And certainly Amazon had a extremely long-term vision. So far longer than I have ever had the gumption to keep. Like I think of myself as a long-term thinker. I am playing a child's game compared to the game that Jeff is playing. Like when I looked at Amazon's economics around the dot…

`2:45:51`

This is something about humans that don't appreciate so much that we take for granted the positive that a thing brings real quick and then we just start criticizing the thing. It's the Wi-Fi and the airplanes. — [DHH] That's exactly it. — But I think Amazon, there could be a case made that Amazon…

`2:46:51`

If you are creating something of value that a lot of people love, you must create an equal and opposite force of haters. You cannot have people who love what you do without also having people who hate what you do. The only escape from that is mediocrity. If you are so boring and so uninteresting that…

`2:47:52`

creating so many amazing products, not murder each other? It's a great story of like partnership. What can you say about collaboration? What can you say that about Jason that you love that you've learned from? Why does this work? — So first I'll say we have tried to murder each other several times over…

`2:48:53`

And that we were able to stomach that level of adversity on the merits of an idea because it was about the idea. It wasn't about the person and it never really got personal. Not even never really, it didn't get personal. It wasn't like, Jason, you're an asshole. It was like, Jason…

`2:49:54`

would see something that looks like I'm going after the man rather than the ball. And I do think I've tried to get better at that. But in my relationship with Jason, I think it's worked so well because we have our own distinct areas of competence where we fully trust each other. Jason…

`2:50:55`

I could just delegate to his experience and competence and say like, do you know what? I may have an opinion, I have an opinion all the time on design. But I don't have to win the argument because I trust you. Now occasionally we would have overlaps on business or direction where we'd both…

`2:51:56`

all the time. Most of our careers, we haven't even lived in the same city. Like I lived in Chicago for a couple of years while we were getting going after I'd moved to the US in 2005. But then I moved to Malibu and then I lived in Spain and then I lived in…

`2:52:56`

The more ideas that can bounce back and forth, the better. And both Jason and I, for whatever reason, came to the conclusion early on in careers. Absolutely not, that's complete baloney. This is why we were huge proponents of remote work. This is why I enjoy working in my home office where I can close…

`2:53:57`

until next month. — And there is a temptation for the managers and for the people in the executive layer to do something, which that's something usually means a meeting, right? And so that's why you say... — Their job is telling other people what to do. — Yeah, and the meeting, so this is one of the…

`2:54:59`

There's some amount of time we can spend together where you can wear it out. Jason and I were diligent about not wearing each other out. And I think that is absolutely key to the longevity of the relationship combined with that level of trust. And then just combining with the level that we really like…

`2:56:01`

— Yes, oh, goddammit. — Get a couple kids. — [Lex] All right. — Like family really is the great antidote to loneliness. And I mean that as sincerely as I can possibly say it. I certainly had exactly that feeling you described early in my career when I was working remotely and I was just a, like me living in…

`2:57:01`

And I think it's key for both Jason and I that we've had families for quite a long time and it grounds you two in a way where the sprint of a startup can get traded in for the marathon of an enduring company. And you get settled in a way. We talked briefly about…

`2:58:01`

we'd be better off and we'd have more stable business relationships as well because folks would get that nurturing human relations somewhere else. Now when I say all of that, I also accept that there are plenty of great businesses that's been built over the years that have not been built remote, that have…

`2:59:02`

which included building up friendships outside of work, having hobbies, finding a mate and having a family. And that entire higher existence, those legs of the stool that work is not the only thing in life is completely related to the fact that we've been around for 25 years. There's way too much, especially in…

`3:00:03`

Most of the time startups go bust. Most of the time people spend five, seven years or something that does not pan out and they don't get the payout and then they just sit with regret of like, what the fuck happened to my 20s? Early on, Jason and I basically made the pact that working…

`3:01:04`

in all the ways you've lost. When so much of life is far more open to multiple winners where we can end up with a business that have made hundreds of millions of dollars over the years, and we've kept much of that to do whatever we want and that's enough. That's good…

`3:02:05`

when you look at who the people like you, like really smart, creative humans, who they actually are and what happiness entails. It actually entails working your whole life a little bit. It's like because you actually love the programming, you love the building, you love the designer and you don't want to exit. And…

`3:03:05`

Yet so many think that that's why they're doing it. That's why they're sacrificing everything. Because once I get to the finish line, I'm golden. I've won, I can retire, I can sit back, I can just relax. And you find out that that kind of relaxation is actually hell. It…