Search

`1:02:12`

with seven words out of 5,000. It's like, what is the story, and who's telling it, and why are you telling it? That's what matters. Figuring out the stuff that actually matters is what's important about that process, and I think, again, running a business and making decisions about product, it's…

`1:02:59`

— Yeah, yes. — your stuff for 13, 15 years." — Yeah. — I bought HEY, just because I wanted to give you money, because I'd buy your books, but I didn't have a team, and Basecamp's project management, — Right. — and I'm working by myself. — Yeah. — And so I couldn't ever give you money, and then…

`1:03:44`

But anyway, during the development of HEY, we launched this pre-launch page months before HEY was done. And so, I wrote this letter about why email is a beautiful thing, and for the longest time, people have hated email, because they despise it, because email has gone off the rails, and we can bring it back…

`1:04:29`

behind the product? How would you describe... — It was the love behind the product. — Love? — Yes. — Say more about that. — Well, I don't want to get silly about it because you can't really love... — It's not silly. — I know, but it's a different version of love. — No, I love podcasts, so I know…

`1:05:16`

which are the products. And I love getting them as right as I possibly can. And there is a warmth that comes to you when you're really proud to share something that you're done with, that you've finished, that you want to put out there in the world. And it could be a letter…

`1:06:02`

You want to write someone on WhatsApp? Well, they have to have WhatsApp. Signal, they have to have Signal. Whatever, right? Email, beautiful thing. It's as beautiful as the web. The web is beautiful because anyone in the world with a web browser made by any company can use HTTP and connect to some other website…

`1:06:49`

but for the outside world, we use email. And I want to use tools I love. I want to use tools that matter to me. And if I'm going to spend most of my day in Basecamp, I want to make Basecamp. If I'm going to spend the other part of my day in HEY…

`1:07:36`

but I don't like that term. I also don't like, "I'm in the tech industry." I'm not a tech person. I don't like that. I make tools, they just happen to be made of software. That's all I know how to do. I don't know how to make things out…

`1:08:22`

— And you have a love of architecture, we just talked about watches, cars, the Concept Rower. When you said, "You could change your mind, David, maybe you're not podcasting in the future." — Yeah. — What I know for sure is if I ever do anything else, — Yeah. — it's going to be physical, because the same phenomenon…

`1:09:10`

But you can go to where the stone wall that he worked on 30 years ago, and he's pointing at it, he's like, "I did that." — That's badass. — "I made that." — Yeah. — Why do you draw so much inspiration from physical things? I'll take some guesses, because I don't know. Just like…

`1:09:55`

I like patina, I like age on things. Software doesn't age. I mean, it does age. It can look old or whatever, but software looks the same over time. A great building, a great brick, to get back to bricks, bricks are beautiful because they look even better as they get older. They collect age on…

`1:10:41`

I just want to be closer to things that are real. Now, flying in the air is real, too, of course, but you know what I'm saying. I'd rather walk somewhere. I'd rather drive. I'd like to be closer to the ground. I've begun to collect rocks that I think are cool…

`1:11:27`

I think there was an organization called... I want to call it Brand, but maybe I'm wrong. Print, actually. It was this magazine that had all these pictures of business cards and stuff, and every designer I know would look through other business cards for inspiration, for color patterns and palettes and layouts, and I'm…

`1:12:14`

and... I have goosebumps. For me, whatever it is, whenever I talk about this, it's just fundamentally real to me, and I just love it, and I love the screen, too. I love making software, too, but probably because I'm in that a lot, I really like not being in that, too. — I don't…

`1:13:02`

But I don't want to "compute." I don't need to compute. Let me just close it and walk away. Again, this isn't.. The computers are some of the most, probably the most amazing tool humans ever made. — The... Yeah. — So, I don't despise them, hate them, but I could take some time away…

`1:13:50`

back in the late '90s or mid-'90s, really. And it's cool to live through both of these moments. But I'd still rather play with some bricks and work on a stone wall, even though I don't know how. But that wouldn't pay my bills either, so I have to be practical. I…

`1:14:35`

Christopher Nolan. — Yeah, uh-huh. Have you ever looked into his personal philosophy at all? — No, I just like his movies. — Okay, so — Yeah. — there's something that me, you, and him, I think, have in common. He desires to live in an analog world. I'm almost positive that's a direct quote. — Yeah. — It might…

`1:15:22`

or whatever. — Yeah. — If he wants you to be in his movie, — Yeah. — like, "Oh, email me the script," he's not emailing you the script. — Right. — Okay? He is printing it out physically, — Yes — flying to you. — Yeah. — So I'm Christopher Nolan, and I want you, Jason, in my movie. — Yeah. — I'm showing up…

`1:16:08`

— I want to talk on the phone — Yeah. — if I can't be with you in person. I don't want to text you. — Yeah. — I want to live in an analog world. I just feel better — Yeah. — being outside reading physical books not looking at a goddamn screen. — I'm with you, and what's important…

`1:16:54`

They make decisions they think other people would make. They don't even have a sense of who they are and what they're all about yet, and I hope all of them find it because it's a wonderful thing when you know what you're into, and also that you know maybe that might change…