Radical Authenticity Over Marketing Tricks

`1:01:27`

I admire anyone who is truly themselves, and that's what that was for you. You're like, "I could have probably faked the accent." You watch TV news, and the guy uses the Hispanic accent for some Spanish word, and you're like, "That's weird." — I know. — You're trying too hard. If you don't speak Spanish, you don't need to fake the accent to try to speak Spanish, is what I was trying to get at. But you see it all the time. I don't know how to pronounce French words either. I'm not even going to try. I'll just say what I say and read it phonetically, and you could even say, "I don't know how to say this." — I do say it. Exactly. — Yeah. I don't know what this is. You're going to laugh at me, but this is what it... And then you move on, and no one gives a damn because you're you, and that's not the point of the story. The point of the story is not perfect French pronunciation,

`1:02:12`

with seven words out of 5,000. It's like, what is the story, and who's telling it, and why are you telling it? That's what matters. Figuring out the stuff that actually matters is what's important about that process, and I think, again, running a business and making decisions about product, it's like, "What matters? What doesn't matter?" That's fun. — Going back to you writing these letters for the landing page. — Yeah. — Do you do it like Bezos, where they write it before the product is created? Or you're doing it after the fact? — In the middle, usually. So, like with HEY, I wrote one for HEY, which is our email service, and before we launched, before the product was even anywhere near done, I wrote the letter. — I need to interrupt you. — Yeah. — I was a fan of your writing. The first time we met, I showed you the Amazon. I was like, "Listen, I have receipts here. I've been reading

`1:02:59`

— Yeah, yes. — your stuff for 13, 15 years." — Yeah. — I bought HEY, just because I wanted to give you money, because I'd buy your books, but I didn't have a team, and Basecamp's project management, — Right. — and I'm working by myself. — Yeah. — And so I couldn't ever give you money, and then you built up so much goodwill by teaching me so much through your writing that I was like, "Oh, I use email." — Yeah. — "I'm going to buy that product." — I appreciate that. — So, I am a proud subscriber of HEY, just because I was like, "I've got to give this... — Thank you. — I've got to pay you back somehow." — Thank you, I do that with other products too, where I'm not going to use them, but I just love the people behind them, and you want to support them. — It happens so much. — And it's a cool way... — This goes back to we identify with people, not companies. — Yes, and it's a cool way to purchase something. — Yeah. — Sometimes, the use is the support, not the actual use of the product.

`1:03:44`

But anyway, during the development of HEY, we launched this pre-launch page months before HEY was done. And so, I wrote this letter about why email is a beautiful thing, and for the longest time, people have hated email, because they despise it, because email has gone off the rails, and we can bring it back on. Do you remember when you used to get an email from someone you loved, or your grandparent, or an old friend? It's a wonderful thing to get an email from someone who you care about. The problem is that most emails now are spam, and sales and garbage, and meetings and shit. Anyway, we can get into that, but the point, to your question, was I wrote that in the middle. I didn't know what the product was going to be yet. We're going one day at a time. I didn't know what it was going to be. — Was that the why

`1:04:29`

behind the product? How would you describe... — It was the love behind the product. — Love? — Yes. — Say more about that. — Well, I don't want to get silly about it because you can't really love... — It's not silly. — I know, but it's a different version of love. — No, I love podcasts, so I know exactly what you're talking about. — Yeah. Yeah. — No, I love them. — Yes. — And when I make one, — Yes. -and listen to it before anybody else does — Yes. — and I'm like, "I'm happy with this," — Yes. — that is love. — Yes, that. — You're not silly. It's not silly to me. — Yeah, I know, I know. Okay, so there's a certain warmth, and tone that comes through when you make something you're really proud of in that way. We got proud about running the business for 27 years. I'm really proud of the products we make. The business, again, is like the envelope. I'm not proud of the envelope. I'm proud of the things that sustain the business,