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`2:19:49`

You just make decisions. And the more you make, the more you make, the more it sharpens everything up. It takes the edge off, I think, eventually, as you make more and more and more, and you're tumbling these things around, essentially, you end up with a nice, smooth orb, and it feels really good to…

`2:20:36`

And that requires, again, back to independence, back to optionality as well. Jason, one of the coolest things about my job is that I can have somebody like you, that I've read and has shaped my thinking over a decade and a half. We've become friends, we get to hang out, and then you also…

`0:00:00`

All right, Jason. Uh, last time I checked, Base Cam hasn't added a single AI feature yet. And, uh, people like Jason Lumpkin are out there saying that that's the only way to survive in SAS and if you haven't added AI to your product yet, that you're already behind. So, how come…

`0:00:46`

there's a writing assistant. There's things you can do across tools. You don't need to have that built into your specific tool. So I think we've we've sort of sat and waited and watched and tried to figure out what would actually be useful. And I think for us the most useful…

`0:01:33`

exploring this first in fizzy which is a new product we're working on and then at some point u some of these ideas might make it to base camp. How do you not have FOMO? Because I mean most founders are doing this because of FOMO. Does that just come with success or how do you…

`0:02:18`

and build really good versions of those things and make those things part of the whole mix when it makes sense. And so FOMO is just not a thing that matters. I mean there there's been, you know, I think when you've been around for a while till you've seen all these trends come…

`0:03:05`

internally for like design, coding, stuff like that? Yeah, some of our programmers use it uh as an assistant essentially. Um but um just because it exists doesn't mean it needs to take over or be the only thing that matters. Again, it's a mix of things that matter and uh that's what we…

`0:03:51`

you think about? How would you approach this? What would you prioritize? I I can't answer the question, honestly. I mean, I'll I'll give you an answer because you asked, but I I don't don't listen to it because, you know, I I don't like hypotheticals in those cases because I…

`0:04:36`

what I have. I'd probably do something solo or I get in an entirely different thing. I would just do something else. Um, like what? Playing the drums. I can't make enough uh of a living doing that. I don't know. I really don't know. I mean, I think I'd probably want…

`0:05:22`

Would I do the same thing again? No. Would I try to re restore what I had? No. I'd probably take it as an opportunity to do something totally different. And I don't think I would know what that would be until I was in that position. That's ultimately the actual truth. So, I…

`0:06:08`

actually maximalism in a lot of ways as well. It's it's like they're very very very very good at the things that they do and they they do them in their own way. And I think I can identify with that in terms of there's a certain degree of independence that the Japanese…

`0:06:54`

there's an appreciation for some of those details um that I really appreciate in the Japanese culture. And so, you know, we I think it's just sort of part of our approach to things. What's your favorite tea? I drink typically drink matcha these days, so I'm like a big matcha drinker. Um…

`0:07:40`

these questions. Um Brian everyone talk about Brian Bailey your head of uh product strategy recently did a post on LinkedIn that at his previous company he always dreamed about doing a second product but it felt impossible. and at 37 signals. In the three years that he has been with the company, you guys launched three…

`0:08:26`

frankly. Like, we're we're doing a lot of things at once right now. Um, I think there's just an itch. We have an itch. Uh, we're we we want to make things. We don't want to make a product. We want to make things. And Base Camp has been our big hit…

`0:09:13`

UI ideas that would be too there's nothing radical about these things we're doing, but too radical in the context of an existing product. So you start something new to try something new. Then you try some new tech. You have some new ideas that don't make sense in your current product. So you…

`0:09:59`

what they have is not good enough or finished enough or whatever and there's a long list of things they need to do. So, like, why would we start something else if we can we have all this other stuff to do with what we already have, which I understand that too. So, I think it…

`0:10:44`

something for a month or two and see where they get before we actually commit more resources. So, we're comfortable with that method. I think that really helps. What product or thing would do you wish would exist in the world that you will never build? That's a really interesting and good question. Um, I…

`0:11:29`

basically for loose groups. The idea of um there there's a lot of groups that are sort of uh very active and there's very loose groups. So, I'm part of what's called the homeowners association for like the neighborhood I live in. And this is a very loose group of people. There's…

`0:12:15`

loose groups. And so there needs to we think there needs to be a tool for those kinds of groups um that need a little bit of organization, a little bit of ways to get in touch with each other, a history so things aren't just lost in the ether when like some board member leaves…

`0:13:00`

exist in Base Camp at some point as well. But other than that, I can't think of anything else, frankly, at the moment that I wish we had that we don't have. Except actually, here's one thing that came to mind. There's a writing tool that I wish we had or I wish…