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When I struggle with writing, it's a signal to stop writing. It's worth finding a flow because then you can ride that. Sometimes I write and I get a little bit contrived and it's because I made the bar so high. What is it about writing it down that makes it have to be…

`0:00:45`

a thousand blog posts, done a bunch of interviews, and he is a master in the art of communication. Most of the episode is focused on prose, his long-form writing, how he's written his books and his articles, but we also got into the mechanics of how he thinks about titles and copywriting. But his…

`0:01:32`

you think about writing, which is actually don't think about writing. Think about taking an idea from your head, clarifying it, putting it onto the page, and get the idea from your head into the other person's brain. Yeah. You know, it's funny, I was reflecting on this quote actually recently and with with…

`0:02:19`

making is just sort of the the step to get the thing. He just want he wants the thing in the end. He doesn't I don't know if he likes the making process so much. That's how I kind of think about writing. I do like writing, but I like the end product so…

`0:03:05`

that doesn't happen to me is sometimes I write and I get a little bit contrived and a little bit like, okay, now I'm writing, I really need to focus. And I just watched your temperament through the video and it never changed. And there was a real sense of calmness that you maintained when…

`0:03:50`

and start over. And try to get there quickly. So the struggle I mean, it is important to struggle through things in life. That's how you're going to get better and stuff, but I feel like it's also a sign sometimes to say this isn't working and you're probably not going to…

`0:04:36`

and maybe that works for somebody else. So these are just ideas that's out in the world that someone might go, yeah, that's how I write. Or like, I didn't think I was justified in writing that way or I didn't think I could do it that way. But he's doing it…

`0:05:23`

why things are coming out so well in a sense. Yeah. You know, like I'm I'm proud of the work at the end, but I don't really understand how I got there. Sometimes I read a sentence and I'll be really proud of it. And I'm like, that's a good sentence…

`0:06:08`

to write something out and I'll look at it and go, that feels good. That feels nice. Just like you you you you come upon something you're on a hike or something and you find a branch. Like every once in a while I'll find a branch with like lichen on it. I'm…

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Actually, okay, we'll do a football Like I'm not a big football fan, but I know I know football. Okay, so basically like when you're running back, you're sort of following what the line is is is doing. They're trying to create a hole for you. And sometimes it just sort of…

`0:07:40`

just couldn't stop. Like the the hole was open and I just felt like I just was in a flow and just kept going. And I barely edited that piece at all and I felt really good about it at the end, but that only happens when there's the hole. Again, if I if I…

`0:08:27`

off I'm guessing here, but that's how the author was feeling when they were writing it too. Like I'll read something. I just read this book, The Overstory. You know this book? Yeah, Richard Powers. Yeah. Oh my god, it was incredible. I mean, it's a Pulitzer Prize winning book, so like I…

`0:09:12`

Yeah. It's just this awe, this majesty. Yeah. And I've had many moments throughout the years where I've seen that and I've had that wow moment and I've said, I didn't even know that that was possible. Like a sense of elegance that I want to recreate. That book is full…

`0:09:58`

Which was just like my what a great way to describe like clear cut trunks are left, short trunks are left and just like desolate emptiness. Nothing that's bald people. Man, the the the thing that really stands out in that is sometimes you read that and you'll see something like that you feel like…

`0:10:43`

all gut. You were talking about the 37 signals guide to internal communications earlier. Yeah. When you have a piece like that where does the genesis moment, how does that happen? What inspires a piece like that? Is this a a question that you keep getting, a sense of frustration? What is anger? Yeah. Yeah, anger, frustration…

`0:11:29`

how we do it. So there there's this competitive spirit. I think that that drives some of that for me. But it's usually like one spark and then um again is is there a fire or is it just go out pretty quickly? It that it I really want to follow my gut on that…

`0:12:15`

When I come up with an idea for a product or a screen and I sketch it the sketch is like the best version of the thing. All from there on out it only gets worse in a sense. Just because the sketch of course doesn't take into consideration all the things that it has to…

`0:13:01`

Um what we did was we took a collection of short essays and cut the short collection of short essays down by half Our contract was like you have to produce 40,000 words or something like Cuz the book has to be this thick, you know in the book world it's like it's thickness…

`0:13:46`

You know and and he read it and he said this is really good. I'm really proud of this. It's too short though. And we said okay, so is this just about length or is it about subject matter? It was just about length. Okay, so we're going to add pictures. We're going…

`0:14:31`

individually I think we'd be happy with all the 40,000 words. But when you look at a book it's a collection. It's not a single essay, it's a collection of things and the collection didn't feel right. I often think of writers they sort of have their zone. It's sort…