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`1:01:27`

doing this was how much you like playing around with the rhythm of words, right? So you said a redo, a rethink, prayers and payers. All the the these sort of playing around with words of sort of this repetition. The jabs. Right. It's like a boxing match. Just jabs. But they're friendly. I like…

`1:02:13`

say in it is that you would work with students to take a piece that's say five pages and then they distill down to one page and then one paragraph, one sentence, and then maybe even one phrase. Why would you focus on that idea for for the class? To me distilling and editing Actually, you…

`1:03:00`

and then you're going to lose some. So I kind of this I like this idea of five paragraphs whatever might be two paragraphs too long. So we need to the three paragraph version or whatever or what pick a number. It doesn't matter. It could be five to four to three to two, whatever…

`1:03:46`

It was always just write, write, write. And then like do a second draft, do a third draft, whatever. And whatever it was like the formal process. It was never about make this tighter, briefer, shorter, more concise, more Um more pointed. It was never about that and I always wondered why not? Like isn't that…

`1:04:32`

if I was to teach just any class at all it would be about iteration. It'd be take something, a project. Pick a project. I don't care. It could be about rocks. It could be about trees. It could be about furniture. Turn it in. The whole semester is just making it Versus in school…

`1:05:18`

itself's been 20 years. The company's been 25 years. Yeah. But yeah, 20 years of Basecamp. Multiple versions along the way. Um and we've made other products since, but yeah, Basecamp has been iterated on and iterated and It's a true joy and pleasure to really hone something like that. To really get…

`1:06:04`

uh and and not just like put it aside move on to the next thing. The other thing that I like about it, so there's two things actually. The first thing is it forces you to understand the essence of what you're trying to say. then the other thing is when you do that, I…

`1:06:50`

here which is that often the distillation is like an emergent property. It it's it's not just taking the parts and making them smaller. You could have the distillation words not even be in the piece. Yes. That's often times what a what a headline is. And this is actually one of the most…

`1:07:36`

you you are sort of squeezing something out and and in some ways what's what what remains and what comes out are different things. And the drop that comes out could summarize the whole thing and maybe that's the one liner or the one word. You know, yeah. And it could be a different word…

`1:08:22`

not a programmer that's a problem. But the first thing we look at is not the resume. It's how have they responded to our call for applications. And we say like write a cover letter. And if the cover letter is written in a way where it's a generic cover letter they're gone…

`1:09:07`

like that's a problem. And if it's like very generic and buzzwordy, that's a problem. It's really the best filter we to get to the kind of person that we want to hire. Uh not every company is going to want to hire like we hire, but we know that the majority of…

`1:09:54`

gets gets an app. Yeah. Is there a lot of long form writing that you're doing or is most of the writing multi paragraph sort of in Basecamp and Um there's like I mean long form for us is the I don't know 800 words 1200 words something like that like a pitch an…

`1:10:42`

And we would never have AI do this this is not a summary of tasks or a summary of output it's someone's own words this is very important to us so it's someone's own words and so there's a lot of that kind of writing and there's shorter writing too. A…

`1:11:28`

they really nailed it or they put in some extra effort to make this better for someone else there's a lot of things that are about helping others whenever I read heartbeats and it's like this person helped this person solve a problem I'm just like it just inspires me it's great and…

`1:12:13`

wrote this like I can just tell so there needs that needs to come through. Um we're very anti internally very anti AI style writing like I don't I don't want convenience right I don't want convenience I want people's own words the people who I work with who I talk to…

`1:13:00`

new employee joining the company 8 months from now and you want to go back and like understand how this company runs to watch like to try to watch 40 hours of boring ass video from a meeting it's you're not going to do it but you might skim and read some things and see…

`1:13:46`

searchable and it's just it's easy to access and it's easy to link to and point out and share with someone else it's just so transferable that that I think it's a wonderful thing to do and I don't think enough companies do it. Or they do it in the boring…

`1:14:33`

of sterilized posturing business writing sense how would you coach me to get to a place where I'm writing the kind of heartbeat that is worthy of your attention. Yeah well first of all I would just it's very simple I'd say just tell me. Because I think that um most people don't…

`1:15:19`

loud. Talk it out. Because it it takes the whole like I have to write something down pressure off of it and then it's just communicate it's pure communication at point and humans are very very good at just talking to each other so just talk it out that's what I'd say and…

`1:16:05`

pithy clever headline or something I'm like and then I'm like would I ever say that out loud to anybody to describe Basecamp? And I'm like no I wouldn't so why would I say it here? And I find that like there's this there's this feeling of like writing clever copy…