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`4:05:36`

but also by the fact that Apple is run by old people. Apple's board has an average age of, I think, 75. Their entire executive team is above 60. Now that sounds horribly ageist. And in some ways, it a little bit is. In the same way, I'm ageist against myself. Like I'm 45…

`4:06:38`

It took meeting the right woman and letting her convince me That this was the right idea before we even got started. I didn't have starting my own family on the list of priorities in my late 20s or even early 30s. It was really the impetus of meeting my wife Jamie and her telling me…

`4:07:40`

that always felt like a very fuzzy abstract idea that sure, someday, maybe. And then it became very concrete because I met a woman who knew what she wanted. And looking back on it now, it almost seems crazy. Like there's this fork in the road of reality. Where if that hadn't happened and I…

`4:08:42`

ending up with my three boys have been just a transformative experience in the sense that here's something that turned out to be the most important thing. And it was an open secret. Not even an open secret. It was an open truth through all of history. You listen to anyone who's ever had children…

`4:09:42`

And now that I am in this situation and just the sheer joy on a daily basis where you think your level of life satisfaction is on a scale of one to 10, and then the satisfaction of seeing your children understand something, accomplish something, learn something, do something, just be. Just goes like, oh my god…

`4:10:46`

And I've often talked about joys of having kids and just seeing your own DNA, which is remarkable to me because literally that's been the pursuit of humans since the dawn of time. I am here today because whatever, 30,000 years ago, some Neanderthal had the same realization that I should procreate and I…

`4:11:47`

was just taken for granted. We're in this grand experiment of what happens if we just remove a bunch of institutions? What happens if we no longer value marriage as a something to aspire to? What happened if parenthood is now seen in some camps? It's almost something like weird or against your own self…

`4:12:49`

That's just a really fascinating human experience that the depth of that bond is something you can't appreciate before you have it. But I also think there is a role to play, to talk it up. Because we're being bombarded constantly with reasons why not to. Oh, it's too expensive. Well, you could…

`4:13:51`

You can look at everything that I've done and if you like some of those parts realize that to me in this situation, the kids, the family, the wife is more important than all of it. And it sounds like a cliche because you've heard it a thousand times before. And by becoming a cliche…

`4:14:52`

it's easier to articulate the negatives because they're sort of concrete, pragmatic, you know, it costs more, it takes some time, you know, they can be, you know, crying all over the place. They're, you know, tiny narcissists running around or whatever. — Which is all true. — Yeah, pooping everywhere, that kind of stuff. But…

`4:15:55`

or don't really think about having kids that kind of stuff once they do it changes everything. So, you know, but it's hard to convert it into words. — One of the reasons I think is also difficult is, I mean, I like kids. Not that I actively disliked them, but when I was around other…

`4:16:55`

that the love you develop to an infant, it happens quite quickly. Not necessarily immediately, I don't know, different people have different experiences, but it took me a little bit. But then once it hit, it just hit like kick of a horse. And I love that it's also just such a universal experience. That…

`4:17:56`

and it's, you know, you just have to make it work. It's just that, I don't know, that kind of like divorce would destroy me. — You should listen to The School of Life. He has this great bit on YouTube. You'll marry the wrong person. If you accept upfront that you will marry…

`4:18:57`

I mean, I think you should try very hard. And I think this is also one of those things where we didn't fully understand those fences. And when we pulled them up and celebrated how easy it is to get divorced, for example, that that wasn't gonna have some negative consequences. I'm not saying…

`4:20:02`

I always thought about burdens as a negative things. Why would I want the burden of a child? I might screw it up. I might be a bad parent. They might have bad... all this stuff, right? All the reasons why you shouldn't. And so few voices articulating why you should. — Yeah, but there I should…

`4:21:04`

still led us straight to hell. I really enjoyed Louis Perry's analysis of the sexual revolution not being an unqualified good, which was something I hadn't thought about at all before she articulated it. That of course women should be able to have freedom and self determination and abortions and all of these things. And…

`4:22:05`

this idea that you have to find some of it through art, some of it through authors, some of it through different... I was just about to say modes of knowing before I stopped myself, because that sounds like woo bullshit. But there are different ways to acquire those deep lessons that sort of paper is not…

`4:23:06`

brings not just at the individual level, but rather at a societal level. And it's not clear at all what the answer is. I think we've tried a lot of dead ends when it came to replacements and people have been filling that void in a million different ways that seem worse than all the…

`4:24:09`

Did they increase your productivity, decrease it, or is that even the wrong question to ask? — I think it's one of the reasons why ambitious people are often afraid of having children because they think I have so much more to do and I barely have enough time now. How would I possibly be able to…

`4:25:10`

that carrying for your own children is some sort of unpaid labor that has to be compensated for in some specific way beyond the compensation of what bringing life into this world, racing wonderful humans. There's something screwy about that analysis that I actually think the modern trad movement is a reply against. Whether they have…