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`1:33:11`

And then also, 10% of our profits go to our employees every year. And it's based on seniority. Or actually, that's the wrong... It's based on longevity, not seniority. The two aren't the same thing. However long you've been here. So every month you've been... You basically accrue units, up to…

`1:33:56`

So, all that money goes to real people. It's real money, it's real cash. No options, no RSUs, no stock, any of that BS. I find almost all of that to be pretty much BS, unless you're a really well- established public company. Our bonuses are based on profits. We've been profitable for…

`1:34:43`

our industry, plenty of our competitors, which I'm not going to name, that hire a lot of people and promise them a lot of stock, and you look at the chart, and it's down and to the right. And I feel bad for those people because they were promised something they'll never, ever get…

`1:35:29`

— The wrong show for this. I want to go back to Rick Rubin and you knowing yourself through this psychedelic experience, partially in your forties. Before you had that experience, what was your inner monologue like? Let's say, when you're running your business, you're 10 years into it, you're 35 years old at…

`1:36:15`

"I'm happy!" — You're like, "I'm happy!" Exactly. — There are so many times where I'm like, — Yeah. — literally, we're having this conversation, — Yeah. — and this is how I know I'm going to do this for a long time, I'm like, "This is so much fun." "Can I do it again tomorrow…

`1:37:00`

about something, and it's probably not true, and it's probably perverted in a million different ways. And there are a million different things that have happened to you that cause you to be the way you were. And all the things, like, I don't know what any of them are, and the reason I…

`1:37:47`

I'd rather learn by doing something again, making more things. So if you draw a line, people are like, "Well, you should learn from your mistakes." I'm not sure what you can learn from them, frankly. I think you learn from moving forward and doing something. You learn by doing. You can't redo what…

`1:38:33`

— Yeah. — And we've been talking a lot about Rick Rubin, and I love his answer — Yeah. Okay. — to this, which it sounds like if I was going to ask you this question now, you would answer it in a similar way. So, he was asked the question, "Do you have an engine of constant dissatisfaction, self…

`1:39:20`

If it could have been better, I would've kept working on it. If it could be better, it's not done. I've done everything I can to make it the best it can be. I can't do more than that, so there's nothing to be critical of. It's almost like a diary…

`1:40:08`

some people might hear this, that's why I'm saying this, some people might hear this and go, "Well, that's an excuse to just do whatever the hell you want. There's no ramifications to any of these things." There are ramifications to these things, but they are written in history, and that is that…

`1:40:53`

and I don't need something to try to tell me that I could do better had I aimed for some target. The target is the work I'm doing now. That's the best I can do. So, fully on board. He said it more eloquently than I did, but that's how I've always…

`1:41:41`

and the widget's supposed to have a circle in the middle, and all of a sudden the circle's off, you can trace that back to where the machine went offline. Like, you can figure out some of these things. Of course, if they're mechanical and you can track it all down, but most businesses…

`1:42:28`

you could do Basecamp again today? — Yeah, no way. No way. No way could I do it again. — The amount of friends that I have that sold a company — Yeah. — and just thought like, "I'm good at company building." — Yeah. — And then their second shot is not going well or ended in failure — Right. — and really…

`1:43:14`

that have done this and say, "Hey, if you want a role model, maybe we should... You know, people that build companies and products that make other people's lives better, those are maybe good people to listen to hear speak. They probably — Yeah. — know some shit if they've been doing it for multiple decades." — Right…

`1:44:00`

Then he gets scared, and he winds up selling it, I think in the 1970s, if I remember correctly. It may have been the '80s. Sold it because he was fearful. — Yeah. — Then lives another few decades. — Mm. — I think at least three, maybe four decades. — Yeah. — Like, a long time. — Yeah. — And the last 10% is…

`1:44:45`

— Wow, that's quite a story. — And I always think about that when you're like... — Yeah. — This guy's life, you could tell, is full of regret. — Yeah. — Full of regret. — Yeah. I know people like that. — Yeah. — And it tends to happen in your thirties, once you've built this big thing and sold the…

`1:45:31`

and that's even more tragic, is that they can't see something that's still an incredible achievement, but it's not the same. And other people will see it as less than, and it's just a terrible outcome. I'm afraid of it, not so much now anymore. But David and I talk about…

`1:46:19`

because that's a rare and fortunate experience to even have that experience." But I wouldn't go and start another business after that. I would just do something else. I don't know what it would be, but I wouldn't want to try to do this again because I don't think I could. I…

`1:47:05`

It's fine. I think one of the great... I think it was Bob Dylan, being interviewed on 16 Minutes, and I think it was Morley Safer or something was asking him about songwriting, and he was saying something... I don't know if you've seen this quote, but it's great. He was reciting one…

`1:47:53`

I can't do it anymore, but I can do other things." And I think that's important because if you identify as an entrepreneur and you sell your business if your identity is tied up into entrepreneurship, you have to go start another because you have to... There's continuity there, that you have to be…