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`1:27:04`

it's not a collaboration. So it has to be speaking the human. It's not just you're writing the prompts in English. You also want to read the responses in the human interpretable language like Ruby, right? So that's actually is beneficial for AI too. 'Cause you've kind of said that for you…

`1:28:06`

we can exchange as we are sitting here, it's very slow. Ruby has a much higher bandwidth of communication revealed conveys so much more concept per character than most other programming languages do. So when you are collaborating with AI, you want really high bandwidth. You want it to be able to produce programs with you…

`1:29:09`

draining out of my fingers. Like that level of immediacy with the material disappears. And the where I felt this the most was I did this remix of Ubuntu called Omakub when I switched to Linux, and it's all written in Bash. I'd never written any serious amount of code in Bash before. So I…

`1:30:11`

Am I no longer learning if I'm not typing? And the way I, for me, recast that was, I don't wanna give up on the AI. It's such a better experience as a programmer to look up APIs, to get a second opinion on something, to do a draft. But I have to do…

`1:31:12`

So like if you set the mode of learning, I don't want to be this sort of give up on AI. I think vibe coding is a skill. So for an experienced programmer it's too easy to dismiss vibe coding as a thing. — [DHH] I agree, I wouldn't dismiss it. — But I think you…

`1:32:14`

It feels like I'm going back to a time where code had to compile and I had to go do something else. A boil some tea while the code is compiling. Well, I've been working in Ruby for 20 years. I don't have compiled weight in me anymore. So there's that aspect of…

`1:33:14`

This is what's crucial to understand programming for programmers who like to code is not just about the programs they get out of it. That may be the economic value. It's not the only human value. The human value is just much in the expression. When someone who sits down on a guitar and plays…

`1:34:16`

and now I'd rather retire than giving it up. Now that doesn't mean you can't have your cake and needed to. I've done some vibe coding where I didn't care that I wasn't playing myself. I just wanted to see something. There was an idea in my head. I wanted to…

`1:35:17`

can you just explain it to me and now I know the thing. So at the end of the day of me working with AI all day long, I'm a little bit smarter. Like 5%, sorry, not 5%, half a percent maybe. That compounds over time. But what I've also seen, when I worked on…

`1:36:18`

of a particular programming language, especially if you don't know it that well or like APIs you can load in documentation. It's just so great for learning. I, for me personally... I mean, on the happiness scale, it makes me more excited to program. I don't know what that is exactly. Part of that…

`1:37:20`

I'm having more fun. That's a really, really important thing. — I like to think of it as a pair programmer for exactly that reason. Pair programming came a vogue in like the 2000s. Where you'd have two programmers in front of one machine and you'd push the keyboard between you. One programmer would…

`1:38:21`

and that I started doing once I typed it out myself. But it gave me the confidence that, you know what? If I need to do some iOS programming myself, I haven't done that in probably six years was the last time I dabbled in it. I never really built anything for real. I feel highly…

`1:39:22`

will turn into a horse when done manually. Something we do recreationally is no longer a mode of transportation to get around LA. You're not gonna saddle up and go to the grocery store and pick up stuff from whole foods in your saddlebacks. That's just not a thing anymore. That could be the future…

`1:40:23`

Controversially, Tobi actually put out a memo inside of Shopify asking everyone who's considering hiring someone to ask the question, could this be done by AI? Now, he's further ahead on this question than I am. I look at some of the coding trenches and I go like, I'd love to use AI more…

`1:41:23`

is I've had the good fortune to... I've been a programmer for nearly 30 years. That was a great run. I try to look at life in this way that I've already been blessed with decades of economically viable, highly valuable ways of translating what I like best in the working world to write…

`1:42:24`

— But is it a career? — Is it a career? And if indeed a single person can build more and more and more with the help of AI, like how do they learn that skill? Is this a good skill to learn? I mean, that to me is the real mystery here, because I think it's still…

`1:43:24`

to just use cursor or copilot to generate code. — It's absolutely not enough. Not if you wanna learn, none of you want to become better at it. If you just become a tap monkey, maybe you're productive in a second. But then you have to realize, well, can anyone just tap? If that's all…

`1:44:24`

and seeing the think box where it converses with itself about how to formulate the response. I almost wanted to think, is this a gimmick? Is it doing this as a performance for my benefit? But that's not actually how it thinks. If this is how it actually thinks, okay, I'm a little scared. This…

`1:45:25`

It's here for gaming. It's here for some specialized applications. My oldest loves playing Gorilla Tag. I dunno if you've tried that. That's basically the hottest VR game. Wonderful, it's great. It's really hard to predict the future 'cause we just don't know. And then when you factor in AI…

`1:46:27`

Just an unbelievable amount of progress in four decades. Then in '56, I think it was, the halt the sign for the Boeing 747 essentially precursor was designed and basically nothing has happened since. Just minor tweaks and improvements on the flying experience since the '50s. Somehow, if you were to predict where flying was gonna go…