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I'm sure, but I also think-- I mean, I wanna take the steel man argument here. I do think that it, this can turn ugly, right? Is it possible for some of these things to just veer into overt racism that isn't founded in anything else but a hatred of other people? Yeah, that could happen. But that…

Like I-- I totally get how you can then jump five leaps and go like, "Okay, well-" That's racist. And I also, I don't care anymore. Like, this is a fair discussion to have. Countries and peoples have a right to set an immigration policy, and this notion that we shouldn't have any borders or, or even…

If you come to Denmark and you wanna become a Dane, and you put in all the effort, and you contribute to so- society, I think most Danes would be quite happy to allow that in a reasonable number. If you come to Denmark and you don't wanna assimilate, and you are a net drain on society, and you…

And then also, American culture is very different. This is a point I did not fully appreciate until living both places extensively. America has a culture of optional assimilation, where it is much easier and then much more condoned for someone coming from Denmark or Ukraine or wherever, come to America, buy into the American set of values and norms…

Holy smokes, must it be almost impossible if you come from a completely foreign culture-... and foreign norms and the rest of it. And of course, that's what the stats I just quoted bear out, that the more dissimilar the culture is and the further it is the less likely to be successful.

`4:37:14`

Yes, but not just that alone, I would say. It's more of the great divide that happened around 2020, where I think a lot of these political fault lines really opened up. And I mean, the shorthand in the US, I think is were you woke or not? And clearly, I had a bunch of people…

Now, this was actually one of the things when we had our big blowup at Basecamp, I came to appreciate in a whole new way this- Earlier norm that talking politics or religion or money with strangers or even acquaintances, and certainly with colleagues, was just not a good idea. That you had a much higher likelihood of being able…

`4:40:38`

One of the great illustrations of that for me was when I watched a clip from William F. Buckley's show. I think it was called Firing Line or-

`4:40:46`

... something like that. And he had a member of the Black Panthers-... on his panel. It was quite obvious that those two gentlemen did not…

`4:44:33`

Yes. And I've tried to be more conscious of that, too. And then when I do choose to speak about it, it's usually because I have deliberated, and I think-... "You know what? This is worth it." Now, I say that, and then I also catch myself thinking the opposite all the time, that I…

`4:45:49`

Maybe there is a way to get back to Buckley's conversation with the Black Panthers, even on social media, in a way where those discussions don't lead to the sort of just vicious mob cancellation nonsense drives that we've had, right? I actually think we're closer there now than we were five years…

`4:46:56`

In the sense that every single round of drama shrinks. So it's like we've, we had this peak infection of mega drama around the same time every other community had a peak infection of drama around 2020. And then you just see, like, every time there's a new flare up, it's less. And…

Can you see how fast it is?" And I can have those conversations with other people who are just also excited about computers. And then there's, like, 10% of it left that's like, all right, I'll chime in on something that's a little controversial, and we can have a little discussion there. And then we can…

`4:49:16`

Well, the problem is the reward function is engagement. And as soon as the reward function is engagement-... engagement's gonna follow base instincts, and here we go. But I also don't wanna be so negative. To me, and I get we all have our own personalized algorithms, and sometimes it gets a little much. But…

`4:50:28`

Is it, is it good for your feed or is it bad for your feed that you have to have it right?

`4:50:45`

I mean, I occasionally have a little bit of that where you just go like, "Wait, what? What are we talking about? What are you... Why would you show up in this…

`4:52:45`

So microcosm of this. There's a guy, Theo, I don't know if you follow him.

`4:52:51`

Um, we had a bit of a thing over the fact that we stopped using TypeScript-

`4:52:57`

... for a project, and he didn't like that and had opinions about that and other actions. And…

`4:53:16`

I was like, do you know what? I don't have to agree with you on everything. Uh, I don't even have to like some of the things that you did or said or whatever. I can follow you anyway. So if I can follow back Theo, then I think there's room for world peace…

`4:53:43`

And either way, I just, you know what? My feed is more interesting when there's some people talking about things that I care about and yeah, I don't have to agree with you on everything. I just don't.

`4:54:13`

It certainly did to a lot of people. I think that tweet really popped off, and I don't know if you noticed, but Bryan Johnson chimed in on the thread, and I could see how Bryan would read that as a bit of a jab. And I do think that Jamie was probably thinking of him…

Every indiscretion or even outburst of fun or cringe is highly likely to be recorded and then shared to the point of ridicule, and what is the rational reaction for humans under those conditions is to pull back, is to make sure you don't dance like nobody's watching because-... they're probably filming you to your great and…

But just recently, we've been talking about this over-optimizers. I saw, uh, Chris Williamson, Modern Wisdom had a bit where he was like, "Yeah, okay, maybe we did go a little overboard." And the triggering thing was the Diary of a CEO, where the host was saying something to the effect of, "I had a glass of wine…