Product People vs. Business Shells

`0:17:48`

Let's get into the envelope thing, because this is kind of part of that. — Okay. — And I remember when I was getting started being an envelope guy. So, the envelope, to me, there's this two sides of business, basically. There's the envelope, and there's the letter. The envelope is the outside, the shell, the business, the vehicle that holds the letter, and the letter is the product or products. I'm a product guy. I love product. That's all I care about. The business side just has to exist to hold the product, right? That's the vehicle in which the product travels in. But I don't care about the envelope so much, but there's lots of people... And I remember this early on, when I first started my business, I was thinking about the brand, and the business, and how big it could be, and how do I describe it, and what do I call it? That's all envelope work. That's all on the outside.

`0:18:33`

And I think there's a number of people... And by the way, it's fine. All this is fine. What I'm getting at is, you've got to know who you are and what you want out of yourself and what you want to do. And if you're an envelope person, that's fine. If you're a product letter person, that's fine, but you've got to know who you are. I know I'm not an envelope person. I don't just want to build shells that gets filled, and then I sell it and build another shell. It gets filled, and I sell it and build another shell. It gets filled, and I sell it. I want to just work on the letter, and the envelope is just the thinnest little thing that needs to be there to hold the letter. I think playing entrepreneur is like spinning up businesses all the time, making all sorts of stuff, and giving it a name, and giving it a logo, and trying to raise money, and coming up with valuations, and talking about all this stuff, and there's nothing there of substance inside that yet. Maybe there will be, but in a lot of cases, there's nothing.

`0:19:20`

There's just losses. And then it's like a mad rush to get out at a certain valuation for other people who put money in. That's like turning a business into an asset, a financial instrument. It's just not interesting to me. I want to make things. I want to build products, and that's what I do. Again, that's what we do, and just the idea of a business being a financial instrument is just like, it's anathema to me. It's repellent, actually. — You just used the word thin shell to describe the envelope. Why do you want a thin shell? — I want it to be a thin shell. — Oh. What does that mean? — Well, I would say this, the more massive an object, the more energy it takes to change its direction, right? This is just like getting back to basic physics.

`0:20:06`

When I think of this stuff, and sometimes these metaphors don't perfectly line up, but in my head, I think of a thick business. It's hard to change, it's heavy, it's massive. There's too much distance between it and the customers and it and the product. There's space, right? If you just imagine something very thick, this is the thing that matters, and you've got to go through all this and compress all this down to get to the thing that matters. Like, I don't like that. I think the thing that matters should be big, and the rest of it should be as thin as possible, and so that's what we've tried to build at 37signals. It's a very thin business with a thick set of products that are good and solid and real and generate real profits and are real businesses, and then the rest of it is just enough to hold it all together.