The philosophy behind Once

`1:31:13`

Yeah, that was fun. And we're still going to do Basecamp in here. So we're still doing SaaS. I still believe in SaaS. This is not going to replace SaaS but there should be an alternative. People should be able to buy what they need versus rent what they need. I think this is going to be an interesting experiment because this is how we started with software and then SaaS came and everyone loved this idea of, I don't have to worry about anything. I'm just going to pay you monthly and you take care of maintenance and hosting all that stuff and keep updating me with better features. So I think it'll be interesting to see if we've missed something leaving that world. One clarifying question, for updates, do you buy yearly, like a new Campfire every year, or how does that work if there's updates? So the plan is, is that let's say you buy Campfire 1.0, this is the way software used

`1:31:59`

to work. It's the same approach, which is like, you'll get all the 1.X updates for free. And you'll be able to decide if you want to update yours or not. So we'll say, hey, 1.1 is out and here are the new things and you get to decide if you want to download that and update yours or not. So you can stick with 1.0 if you want or you can skip a version, whatever you want to do. If when we get to version 2.0, there'd probably be... you'd probably have to buy it again, but we'd probably have a discounted upgrade rate. But that's like, you also totally optional. I don't know if we'll ever even get there. We might not need to. Have no clue. But we're leaving that door open that if there's a radically new version that we had to sink another six or eight months into or something, it feels right to say you'll need to upgrade.

`1:32:44`

Maybe you get half off because you're a previous customer or something like that. So we don't know but that's the plan. I think it's also important for people to remember your target is not to replace Slack at big tech companies, like your market is the Fortune 5 million as you described. First of all, we don't have a sales team, so it's self-service, it'll always be. If some big huge company says... they look at their bill, their Slack bill and they're going, we're paying 1.2 million a year for this? Wait, wait a second, I can pay less than 1,000 bucks once for this. Maybe that's worth having, or maybe even if we don't use it, it's absolutely worth buying because maybe we will use it, or maybe we can experiment with it in this place. One of the things we're trying to do here is find a price point and it's going to be under 1,000 bucks.

`1:33:30`

I won't tell you exactly where, but we're trying to find a price point where it's kind of becomes a no-brainer, like, you know what? We should buy this, we should have, this should be in our toolkit, and we should use this in certain parts of our business even if we don't replace this other thing, although we still might because we might find that as this group or these two groups or three groups that are using this are making exactly the same progress, why are we spending all this money elsewhere? So it's a bit of a Trojan horse, potentially. I don't know what's going to happen. No idea, but it's going to be pretty interesting. The other thing that's really cool about it, this is the tiniest market in the world, but because it doesn't go out to the internet, you can run it in truly air-gapped research facilities. There was a time way back in the day where the White House got in touch with us. This is when Obama was running and wanted to use Basecamp.

`1:34:18`

But they're like, we need to install it because we can't obviously host this stuff on your servers. I know, I totally get it. We can't do that, unfortunately. Sorry. But they have security needs that are just far beyond what most things allow, but this is the kind of thing where they can actually be completely detached from the public internet and run this kind of software, which is really interesting. Again, tiny market, not what we're building it for, but it's a cool byproduct or side effect, I should say, of running things this way. And then did you share when this might come out? I know you don't promise dates but is there something you want to share there or is it- Well, unfortunately, we promised. We said by the end of this year, that's why I was getting to that. But we said by the end of 2023, and we're almost there, here we are in December, so