Radical Authenticity Over Marketing Tricks

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At what age do you really think that you finally figured out who you are? — I think probably more recently, frankly, than then. I think I knew what I liked to do, but I'm not sure I still know fully who I am, but I... That's the big question, right? Like, who are we and the whole thing, right? I don't totally feel like I should... No one should be certain about that. But I feel like I've come more into my own actually since getting married and having kids. Looking back on maybe how I was, how I acted, how I was in the world, I'm glad I am who I am now than who... I wouldn't want to be that person again. — Why? Didn't you say you used to have, like, anger? — I think I was... Yeah, I was definitely more of a punk,

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you know? Like a young... — Say more. — I don't know. I think I probably resented things for some reason. I was sort of... I had a chip on my shoulder. I mean, maybe that was good. Like, you've got to prove yourself when you're new into something, and you're young, and you're breaking in, and people don't think you're any good at what you do. The only time I'm ever competitive is when someone slights me. Otherwise, I'm not competitive. So for whatever reason, if someone's like, "You can't do that," or, "You guys aren't good enough," or... I remember this... Actually, early on in my career when I was a web designer, before I made software, I just designed websites, I submitted a website design to an award thing, and I'm trying to remember what... It might have been called the High Five Award or something. I can't quite remember what it was, and I can't remember the guy's name right now. Dave Siegel, actually, was his name. I do remember now.

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Back in the day, getting an award from Dave Siegel, I think, was his name, was a big deal in the design community. So I submitted a design, and he wrote me back saying, "You suck." Literally, "You suck. Find another day job." And I loved that. I loved that. That was like... I loved that. I love when someone says you can't do something, that you're not good at something, you know. Maybe this comes from being, like, I'm 5'7", and I'm pretty good at basketball, and you walk on the court, and people don't think you're very good. You know, I love that kind of stuff, right? So, that just fired me up. So as far as finding confidence, I think I probably had a lot of that early on, where people were like,

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"You're just one guy. How could you do this?" Or, "How could you do that?" Or, "You don't know what you're doing. You don't have a degree in this." That kind of fired me up for a while, but there's a point where you want... This is, again, to the point of, kind of like, you want to sort of launch, and then you want to find a place to settle, where you kind of just, I think, come into your own at a certain point. And I think I probably did that in my forties. I'm 51 now. So I think in my forties, I probably came into my own actually, settled into my own. Had some psychedelic experiences, which helped as well. — Did you? — Yeah. — John Mackey... I don't know if it was in the episode, I can't remember. — Yeah. — But this guy keeps trying to get me to do psychedelics. I think we talked about it at the end. — Yeah. — I was like, "I'm not doing psychedelics." What did you do? — Why not? — I... — Let's turn this interview around. — Let's go. It's a conversation.